and clinton is good, and by that i mean he can find a way to get things done. it's not necessarily the solution he'll finally get through, may not be the best way to fix the problem, may not be the most efficient or least costly, but it is the politically doable way. and that's--that's a great skill. that's actually a great art. c-span: anything about him you don't like? >> guest: sure. he's a politician. you know, like all politicians, he's a compromiser, and in my opinion he compromises far to easily and far too often. he'll often give away 9/10ths of the loaf just to get one slice. seems to me he ought to hold out for at least half. c-span: now, for whatever reason, in the last six months we've happened to have interview alice rivlin and donna shalala on this network. >> guest: mm-hmm. c-span: and i know donna shalala had a book party for you here in this town. but in each case they talk about the hiking that goes on and that you're in that group. >> guest: there is a bunch of people, almost all of us women, but a couple of men go along, too. and we have bee